CONTEXT: The Seniors Committee Exchange Between Esther Pauls and Sandy Shaw

Hamilton-West Ancaster Dundas Member of Provincial Parliament Sandy Shaw posted a 41-second clip of an exchange between her and Ward 7 City Councillor Esther Pauls that occurred during the October 4 Hamilton Seniors Advisory Committee (SAC).

Here is more context.

In recent years, SAC has passed motions calling for a coroner inquest into COVID-19 deaths that have occurred in long-term care homes.

City Council recommended that SAC speak with local MPPs because inquests are a provincial jurisdiction, and instructed SAC to invite local MPPs to attend a meeting.

Shaw, and Hamilton Mountain MPP Monique Taylor, logged into the video conference meeting on Friday. Both are NDP MPPs.

Hamilton Conservative MPPs Donna Skelly and Neil Lumsden were invited to the meeting.

Pauls and Committee Member Back and Forth

Around ten minutes into the meeting, Shaw was asked to speak about debates in the Legislative Assembly. She stated the Official Opposition NDP is “disgusted” about the “up to 6000 seniors that died across the province” during COVID and the decision of Premier Doug Ford’s Progressive Conservative government not to call any inquiries.

Shaw said SAC should keep asking questions, but “because you’ve gone down the road of a coroner’s inquest and it sounds like you were, you know, you were misled,” SAC should consider different “tactics” adding their request “is legitimate.”

SAC Member Barry Spinner asked Clr Pauls “if the requests from SAC had been more specific and had excluded the city-owned facilities, would council have responded differently?”

Pauls responded that the discussion was in closed session with a city solicitor.

Spinner and Pauls discussed back and forth. Pauls stated again the matter was dealt with by council in closed session.

MPP Taylor Weighs In, Calls for People to Vote Out Tories

MPP Taylor is recognized to speak at 18 minutes and 30 seconds into the meeting, stating the NDP is continuing to call for an inquest or inquiry.

Taylor cited the Ontario Ombudsman report Lessons for the Long Term, which investigated failings that contributed to COVID deaths in long-term care homes, to remind SAC the “the Ministry did not have a plan for how inspections would work during the pandemic and did not provide inspectors with adequate training and equipment.”

Taylor says she “hearing from families that there are still not enough inspections going on .. it’s still a battle to ensure that we have adequate safety measures in place” and provincial inspections are ineffective because inspectors contact the home to arrange visits before conducting inspections.

She said the only way to effect change is ‘electing a new government.’

Taylor Calls for Electing a New Government, Pauls Throws Up Her Arms

Pauls threw up her arms in protest and shook her head.

Taylor responded, “Don’t shake your head. It’s true.”

Committee Chair Penelope Petrie chuckled in response.

Pauls unmuted her microphone and said, “We’re not talking about politics.”

Taylor responded she was not going to argue with Pauls.

Committee member Peter Lesser gave Taylor a thumbs up.

Pauls and Taylor briefly spoke over each other.

That was the end of this exchange.

[Link: 64-second video clip of this exchange]

Pauls Says Unfair to Be Partisan without Government MPPs Invited to Defend Themselves

Later in the meeting, Pauls stated her objection to Taylor’s comments was that it was “unfair” to state when the government is not present to ‘defend’ its decisions.

Pauls added that COVID was an unprecedented situation.

“I just want to say we were all learning and that’s why I said it’s not politics. Because, you know, whatever government is, I’m sure they did terrible. They weren’t aware of it.”

[Link: 35-second video clip of this exchange.]

Pauls Says Next Step is Call for COVID Inquest to Return to Council GIC

Pauls says she wants the Seniors Advisory Committee to ask Council again to endorse calling for a COVID inquest, and for the request to be added to the General Issues Committee.

The previous motion was voted on by the Emergency and Community Services Committee.

Pauls committed to attending the Emergency and Community Services Committee if Hamilton’s procedural bylaw requires the matter to be considered there.

SAC will consider the matter further at their next meeting on November 1.

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The City of Hamilton removed the meeting video from its public YouTube page. TPR screen-recorded the public meeting and used that recording for this articles.

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Production Details
v. 1.0.1
Published: October 7, 2024
Last updated: October 7, 2024
Author: Joey Coleman
Update Record
v. 1.0.0 original version
v. 1.0.1 added thumbs up screencapture.